Sample rate questions

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Jmcmillan

Sample rate questions

Post by Jmcmillan » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:56 pm

I feel like I'm still a newbie to some audio processing questions...but here goes :)
- I think the music I'm generally making (Instrumental, down tempo, relaxing, etc), it's possible it could get used in film/video, and not just used for Audio/CD/Streaming.
- Film uses 48kHz, CD/Streaming uses 44.1kHz.

So I think it's best for me to start projects and record in 48kHz. Is this a valid point?
If so, here are some questions:

1. Streaming distributor I use (Amuse) required 44.1kHz/16bit wave files for uploading. Is there any audio quality degradation if I have the Auria project in 48kHz/24 bit, then mix down to 44.1/16? I've read that some conversion algorithms in different DAWs have some varying level of quality for sample rate conversion. I stopped at digging into the technical details of how it works, and thought I would just ask the developer!!

2. If I have a project started in 48kHz, and I need to import a 44.1kHz sample, does Auria convert it on import?

Any other issues that'll I'll run into needing to use both 48k and 44.1k?

wigglelights
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Re: Sample rate questions

Post by wigglelights » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:07 pm

Hi
Slightly roundabout way of talking about higher bitrate Files, but a couple of years back I bought a high res audio player (Fiio X5) that supports lossless audiofiles. And then I ended up spending tons rebuying favorite albums as 24b/96k flac files. Without doubt, listening to these files on the fiio are SO much better than the 16/44.1 format of CDs. Stereo separation, headroom and dynamics, tightness in the low end and clarity in everything else just puts CDs to shame.
So to your question, I’m obviously a believer that mixing and mastering should be done at the highest settings possible. Many of the albums I’ve bought are from the remastering files, which as I understand it many are done at 32b/192k then converted to a deliverable format. My experience is that downsampling comes at a cost and the difference between 24/96 and 16/44.1 is huge. So my two cents being that if you are thinking your music may be played in a theatre with a film, 24/48 will be the way to go.
In terms of workflow, I’d say create your masters as high res wav files in Auria, then look into other iOS or pc apps to downsample to a 16/44.1 format (again a lossless format like wav or flac preferred, but with the case of webstreaming a lossy mpeg format as well (just make sure that’s set to 320k CBR)). While there will be loss of quality, the old adage “garbage in, garbage out” is especially applicable to audio.
Also, my understanding is that iPad sound cards are set at either 16/44.1 or 16/48 depending on the model. To actually hear a mix and master into 24/48 will require an external audio interface that supports that bit rate....

Hope that makes sense. Best of luck!

Jmcmillan

Re: Sample rate questions

Post by Jmcmillan » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:05 am

wigglelights wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:07 pm
In terms of workflow, I’d say create your masters as high res wav files in Auria, then look into other iOS or pc apps to downsample to a 16/44.1...

Hope that makes sense. Best of luck!
Makes perfect sense, thank you!
My question is from the sentence above, about going from 48k to 44k. I know I can make a final mixdown at 48/24. But then going to 44/16 is the question. You were saying use other apps or PC programs. Another option is to start a new Auria project at 44k, and import the 48/24 wave file and Auria converts it to 44k. Which is better I wonder...

wigglelights
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Posts: 88
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Re: Sample rate questions

Post by wigglelights » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:40 pm

Good question, but I’m not in a place to answer this.... to me it feels like doing something twice, if you have a “perfect” mix as a high res stereo or 5.1 wave file, that is as good as it gets.
What i was getting at is that different apps most likely use, and may focus on, proprietary algorithms to downsample, and those algorithms probably vary in quality. For instance, a film shot on a RED camera has to be stepped down to 4K, HD, and possibly a streaming format. RAW images from a 7D may have to be stepped down to a distributable file size. Avid or iMovie, Adobe or Picasa. But a DP doesn’t reshoot a scene on an iPhone just because it may go to that format. The team in charge of distribution uses preferred tools to “master” the perfect mix to the format required.
In terms of audio, that’s really what Mastering is all about. Back in the LP days, each track had to be mastered differently depending on its physical location on the disc - Peter Gabriel has mentioned that the trackorder of So was determined by this. But this didn’t affect the two track final mix, only the mastered disc.
Again, I’m not a pro at this, but my feeling is mixing from Auria into two different bit rates is going to be really tough. Provided your sound card supports you hearing the difference, it will just be almost starting from scratch. Making the perfect mix, and using a mastering app like Final Touch or Izotope Ozone to downsample, which focus on that function, is a more direct path.

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